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1997 Interview With Al Bielek : Time/Space Travel/Aleins/Star Wars/Our Future

By Kenneth Burke

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g Edge Newspaper has not published this complete interview with Mr. Bielek before now as there is absolutely no way to corroborate this information. However, in the interest of educating the public as best as we can we are choosing to share Mr. Bielek’s story in this complete format.)

LE: Whatever you'd like to share, just share, and we'll use this as the basis of a story.

BIELEK: Well, as you say, you have already published some information on the "Philadelphia Experiment," and there's been a lot of publication done in the last five years. I've been all over the country. I've been in Europe, and I'm scheduled to go to Australia in October for a major lecture there for the Australian MUFON organization in Queensland. The word's getting around.

It's an interesting thing that the first time I went public with the story in the lectures was in Phoenix, Arizona, 1989. I had only become aware of my involvement in 1988. It was all blanked out in the meantime. There was a very thorough job of brainwashing, believe me, but it finally broke through. It broke through in January 1988, when I watched HBO late one Saturday night. I had never seen the movie, "The Philadelphia Experiment." Of course, it had gone through the regular movie circuits before that, and I'd seen the dockets in the local movie in the town I was in at that time, Sedona, Arizona. The docket was "The Philadelphia Experiment." I was only there a week and, for some reason, I didn't go. I didn't see it again. Then, it went into the video format, and EMI Thorne took it over and got the rights to put it on video from the producers, and they started showing it. So, that night on HBO at 4 a.m., they announced that the next feature of the evening would be "The Philadelphia Experiment." Well, I was about to go to bed, but I said, no, because I wanted to watch it. I'd heard so much about it.

The first 15 minutes were almost "dead on" what happened. There were six script writers, because I talked with the producer later. Where they came up with the information, I don't know. He didn't know either. He didn't even know for sure whether the thing ever happened, but he thought it was a great idea and they produced the movie. They were so close to 100% accuracy that it was amazing. That's what hit me. It re-stimulated memories, which were close to the surface anyway. The two major areas in the first 15 minutes were the number of people: for the ones on board the Eldridge, they showed 150, which is the normal complement of personnel for the ship but, for the test, they only had 25. It was a skeleton crew, because they weren't going anywhere except downriver. They never went out to sea for the test, except for the sea trials for the ship before they held the test. For that sea trial, they had

a full crew. In any case, that was one error. The other was that they said it occurred in October 1943. It did not. It was in August. There were three tests with the Eldridge: a 22 July test, which was totally successful except for the side effects on the personnel; a 12 August test, which was a total disaster; and, after they recovered from that and had replaced the burned-out, wrecked equipment, they decided on one more test, which happened in late October with the ship on-station and to take all personnel off, like they did in 1940 during the first successful test in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. No personnel were on-board the ship. It was a very small one, but that test proved that they had the right scientific basis and the right equipment, which worked. The late October test was also a disaster, even though there were no personnel on board, so they just scrubbed the whole thing and buried it.

The Eldridge, of course, was rebuilt, as it had to be to finish the war. That was for the parts which were left out for the test and to remove the heavy equipment. It went to sea in World War service, then, in 1946, it went into mothballs. In 1951, the Eldridge and one other ship were turned over to the Greeks as part of the lend-lease program, or whatever you want to call it, after the war, which Truman initiated. They renamed it the Leon, and it remained a training ship for the Greek Navy for many years. About two years ago, the US Navy approached the Greeks and said, well, we own the Eldridge and we want it back. They didn't ask for it, they demanded it. They wanted it back, period.

Believe it or not, there are photographs from the Greek "Playboy" magazine, and I have them, showing the ship as it was sitting in the harbor at a dock, rusting away. The decks were full of rust. The hull was in such bad shape, they couldn't take it across the Atlantic on its own power. They had to clean it up enough to tow it across the Atlantic. It is now sitting in the Norfolk, Virginia, shipyard being rebuilt. It took a little digging to find it, but I did. The people, who looked into this, who are also quite high-level former naval personnel, tried to find out and ask the Navy why they wanted to rebuilt it. They couldn't get an answer, and they were absolutely refused information. If you're not in the Navy, you don't have a need to know. I'm trying to arrange to get there to take photos of it, but I don't know the correct channels to contact. Although the Norfolk, Virginia, shipyard is semi-open to the public, I don't know if I can get into the area where the ship is being rebuilt, but I'm willing to try.

The ship test failed. There was too much power involved. The approach was faulty. It worked in terms of the hardware, but it failed in terms of the human element. So, in 1947, Dr. von Neumann, who was the second director from March 1942 onward, was asked by the Navy if he would reopen the experiment and the files to see if he could find out what went wrong and whether it could be salvaged or whether any part of it could be salvaged. So, he did. It took him five to six years.

He was in the process of developing the modern electronic computer with stored memory, which he did finish before the British, though the British won't admit it. In fact, he and one of the other well-known scientists, delivered the first working model of the computer to England after they delivered a model to the Navy. At the same time, he was working on finding out the nature of the problem with the "Philadelphia Experiment."

It was a very long and strange sequence of events. Of course, everybody's heard about the "Roswell Incident" in July 1947. He was one of the members of the scientific teams under Dr. Van Everbush, who went to Roswell.

LE: I don't think most people know that.

BIELEK: No, most people don't. That was 7 July 1947. He was there at the crash site. There was one live survivor. Two ships crashed, colliding into each other, and they both came down. One was totally demolished. The other was nearly intact. There was one survivor from one of the ships. I don't know which one. One crash was near Roswell and the other was about 60 miles away. The original one was on the Braswell ranch, and I think that's where they found the survivor. To my knowledge from what I've been told, Dr. von Neumann did get to talk with the survivor, who discussed some of his problems, including the "Philadelphia Experiment." Now, I have other input from people who talked with aliens about the "Philadelphia Experiment," time, and so forth. The common statement was, "You people are absolutely stupid and ignorant about time. You don't understand what it is!" This came from somebody, who's an abductee on a regular basis. The comments were interesting. So, from my understanding, Dr. von Neumann talked with an alien, got some clues how to redesign the system entirely.

I do not know what he did because I was not part of it. I was removed from the Navy on 4 July 1947, removed from Los Alamos, sent to Washington, DC, for a court martial on the changes for which I was arrested, which were espionage. These were dropped when I got to Washington. It was just a means to get me out of the area and separate me from my family, which I've never seen since. My wife is dead. My son is still alive, but I've not been able to see him, and my attempts have been blocked every time. I went to Washington, where I was given a new assignment at Montauk. I didn't know it was Montauk - they called it Fort Hero, but it was the same location for the later Montauk project. From that point, after I was on base and out of the public eye so-to-speak or away from any of the other personnel, other than the armed guards who surrounded me, I was time-transferred to 1983, where they did the full erasure of my full memory of my career and everything as Zeb Cameron. All my credentials were removed and erased. Dr. von Neumann knew it was happening. He didn't like it, but he couldn't do anything about it.

They also pulled the age regression number on me, which was to reduce my body size to that of an infant. Now, they can take a person back to a fetus. This is a common and usual technique, now, and I know people who have gone through it, including my second son. (I have four sons by the way.) My number two son, I found and I've met and know him. It's another long story.

LE: He was regressed that way, too, and given a name change?

BIELEK: He was also regressed back to a fetus; yes, the whole nine yards. I was reduced only to approximately a one-year-old boy. Why they stopped at this point, I don't know. I think part of the process they intended to put me through was subverted or failed. I know Dr. von Neumann interfered with it at one point. So, I was sent back to 1927 as approximately a one-year-old boy, because, my legal parents, whom I knew as my only parents for many years (Albertina Bielek, maiden name Kurchess, and my father Arthur E. Bielek) were the only parents I knew. I was totally wiped as memory, and I grew up as a kid, literally from a baby but, at the age of one by the birth certificate, which said March 31, 1927, by Christmas I would have been nine months old. My first memory in that family was as a kid sitting at mother's grand piano next to a Christmas tree so high. I was sitting next to it, and they had the family around exchanging presents. It was a family get-together in Jamaica, New York. I finally was able to pull the memories back and remembered the fact that I understood everything they were saying. Now, since when does a less than one-year-old child understand what adults are saying? A few things blanked out. Certain things were said and didn't register or blanked out. The people who were there, of course, I knew later. I grew up with them. I knew exactly who they were - various aunts, uncles, cousins, brother of my legal mother, and so forth. Well, I grew up knowing nothing of my past. I was Al Bielek. I was very heavily repressed in many respects.

Eventually, World War II came. I went into the Navy - I was drafted into the Navy, which was very unusual - but I had a letter of directed assignment for electronics. I passed the Eddy test, and I was the only one in the entire school who passed the test. So, I went into the Navy, came out, went into my own business, and eventually left that and went to school. I moved to California, finished school, and became an electronic engineer from 1958 through 1988. I retired in 1988 but, during that period, I developed a very passionate interest in the "Philadelphia Experiment." I had no reason to know why at that point. In 1952, I met Ivan T. Sanderson, who did his own investigation into the "Philadelphia Experiment" in 1952 and 1953. Then, I moved west and recontacted him 10 years later in 1963, when I was working in State College, Pennsylvania.

LE: During this time, before you had awareness unfolding about your interaction with the government, didn't they have you doing anything?

BIELEK: Not until sometime around 1956. I was in Hawaii working for the Navy department in 1956 as a civilian employee through Hoffman Electronics of Los Angeles and was assigned to Pearl Harbor. I was there a little over a year. During that period, I had a great deal of interest in many things, including psychic sensitivity. One night, I blanked out while sitting on the doorstep of the Hawaiian Hotel on the ocean front. I blanked out for a period of an hour or an hour and a half (I don't know how long). I knew something very unusual happened, but it took until about 1986 to find out what happened in 1956. I was pulled to the "Montauk Project" by the then (and at that point, I think the only) station master for the "Montauk Project" on Long Island, because there were others which were also operating in the same mode. The original one was on Long Island. The station master then was Jack Pruitt. I've since met his son, Glen Pruitt, and we finally verified that was the man, because Glen has a picture of his father. Preston and I both looked at the picture and said, yep, that's him, Jack Pruitt. Glen Pruitt didn't know whether his father had or had not been involved in the "Montauk Project," because his father denied it.

LE: So, with some kind of electronics, they pulled you up ...

BIELEK: All the way up to 1976 to interview me to become a person to work on the "Montauk Project." They finally got my interest when they knew I was interested in UFOs. They said, well, do you have an interest in them? I said, yeah. They said, how would you like to see one. Of course, I was interested, and they said, well, come with me. So, we went into one of the cavern sections under Long Island, which are part of the Montauk operation, and they showed me a UFO which was literally trapped in this underground cave. It was about 60 feet in diameter and gold in color. At this point, I was introduced to the crew, whom they had captured intact. This thing actually tied back to the "Philadelphia Experiment" of 12 August 1943. It was caught in the time-field shift. For reasons we don't know, they wound up disabled in the underground of Montauk. They said, how would you like to work on this thing. Well, they had me. So, I volunteered to work on the "Montauk Project." Most of the people, who worked on the "Montauk Project" they got to volunteer one way or another. These were not the "Montauk boys," that's a different story.

LE: By fascinating them and getting them started.

BIELEK: Yeah, getting them fascinated. Dangling a carrot in front of one's nose in the area of one's expertise or principal interests. So, they got me there, and I was there for a long time. I remember it as about seven years, but they were able to manipulate time so well that, when that phase was done, they sent me back to Hawaii to the same night, after spending what I can estimate today as approximately seven years' work, back to within an hour or so of when I was pulled out.

LE: They were able to compress time that way.

BIELEK: They can manipulate time like you wouldn't believe. Of course, I spent other time at Montauk, and I've been on other government projects. There were many, and not all of them have come back to memory. About six have come back. That was the Montauk thing, which was later. At the time I was at Cameron in 1947, when they pulled me there to 1983 and gave me the identity of Al Bielek, I didn't know who I was until the memory came back that night while watching the movie. Of course, I've done much intensive research since to find the rest of the story and get my memory reestablished, because it was spotty.

LE: Let me ask you this. What was the time span when you worked those seven years?

BIELEK: That was 1976 to about 1982.

LE: So, when you were put back at the steps of the hotel, and you moved forward in normal linear time, what happened ... say, you had two bodies working at two different places?

BIELEK: No, it was the same body - the same me. They pulled me physically out of the location where I was then sent me back.

LE: Yes, I understand. When that part of you that came back through normal linear time, wasn't there another part of you ...

BIELEK: Well, it's hard to explain and to get people to understand this ...

LE: In other words, you were working in Montauk from 1976 forward, and a part of you on the doorstep came through linear time and was doing something else, right?

BIELEK: That's right. I was an electronics engineer for many years, and I was running, not a dual personality, but a dual existence.

LE: Well, was it like two time-lines going on?

BIELEK: Yes. That would be the best way to explain it. What would happen - of course, they did this with Preston, they did it with me, and they've done it with many other people. You might be a civilian working as an engineer, as I was and as Preston Nichols was working for 15 years for a major corporation on Long Island. Preston was also doubling as an engineer at the "Montauk Project." He couldn't ever figure out how he was doing both at the same time. He finally did figure it out when I prodded him, after my memories of the "Montauk Project" came back after my second visit to Montauk.

My first visit was in August 1985 right after a USPA Psychotronics Conference in Dayton, Ohio, where I met Preston, whom I didn't know then was my brother but suspected that we had a connection and I knew I knew him from somewhere but it took quite a while for that to filter through. I was invited to see Preston and went there in August 1985, when he took Duncan and I to Montauk. He'd made many visits as a surplus dealer in electronics but, at that point, he still did not know that he had been involved himself. Duncan and I didn't know either. He said to us, I want to take you guys there. You're both sensitives, and I want to take you to a place I know. I'm not going to tell you exactly where I'm taking you, but we're going east on Long Island. I want you to see what you sense and pick up. I know you guys have never been there before. (Ho, ho, ho. That was the joke of the century, but we didn't know it.)

Well, we sensed what had been at Montauk. We sensed there had been a monster roaming the base - that a hugh project had been operational here that had been abandoned. The evidence was everywhere physically. Buildings were everywhere with doors standing open, wrecked equipment inside, and the gates were broken. It was an abandoned base. This was because Montauk crashed 12 September 1983. It's a long story how or why, but it was after the involvement with the "Philadelphia Experiment," which occurred 12 August 1943 for the Eldridge and 12 August 1983 at Montauk. They were deliberately designed to lock up. It took a long time to understand this and gather the data about what was involved. This was part of the alien operation, because there were aliens at Montauk by design and by agreement with the government. They said, we'll help you build it. You've got the technology, but you have to understand what to do. We'll show you how to build it. So, the government asked what was the price, and the aliens said they wanted their own agenda on the station periodically. So, the government agreed to it. Even though it was run by private scientists, the government and the intelligence community, in particular, had oversight. There were no regular reports to the House or Senate, because not one cent of government money went into the operation. It was all private money. (Not now, but in the first phase up to 1983.)

So, there was not traceability. It was a privately run operation with government oversight through various military and intelligence organizations, and, to some extent, they set the goals and the agenda in the sense that the aliens would come in. They told Dr. Herman Sieunterman, the administrative director of the project until 1983, that he would have to learn to work with aliens. He was a hard-headed German, who, in his life, probably had never seen an alien or even thought about what an alien might be. So, he was told by the government that he would have to work with them. Well, of course, all of us who were there did work with them. We all knew them, saw them, and worked with them every day. They had a draconian, who was in charge of and was the chief director of all the alien interests. He had his own office. We called him Charley. He was a seven-foot tall draconian, weighing 450 pounds. He was extremely intelligent. The first time he was there, he looked down at humans as a near sub-human species, which was almost dirt beneath his feet because, really, they were intelligent far beyond human standards.

LE: Would you say, human standards, like maybe 2000 IQ or 5000 IQ or?

BIELEK: I wouldn't even know how to estimate. However, being that the IQ standard is logarithmic, there are rare humans with IQs from 300 to 350. He would probably be somewhere around 1000+ to 2000. They are highly educated and live a long time. There were other species there with whom we worked, who were helping us design the computer systems. They had very advanced computers, and we were working with an IBM 360 and 370 which, at that time, were the most advanced we had. Later, the Cray I came onto the scene. Of course, if we had had the Cray III, which we did not have in that era, there would have been many fewer problems than we had to circumvent by using the IBM 360 and 370.

LE: Now, I realize this is very complicated but, what are some examples of the alien agenda or can you talk about that?

BIELEK: Right now, we don't really know what they wanted to do, and I was not privy to everything that went on in the station. I was what was typically called middle management. I was below the station master in rank or pecking order, if you will. I was involved in a number of different projects, where I had certain degrees of expertise and what I was assigned to do. Of course, I had to know everything involved. I did not know about all the projects that were ongoing, and did not know all the things that aliens were doing, except they were interfacing with humans. There was some genetic experimentation involved at Montauk. They helped design the equipment so that they could run their own agenda. The only part of their agenda, which I know for sure, was that, on 1 August 1983, the orders came through, and they were there to see that the station was turned on and run continuously, 24 hours a day, until 12 August. That was very abnormal, because it would only run six to eight hours a day every three or four days for whatever experiments or work involved - whether it was being run by the aliens or by the humans. The aliens were always in the background with computer work and computer expertise.

LE: So, they just didn't talk about what they were doing, because they had no reason.

BIELEK: Right, they didn't. The only one who ever gave me information was Charley, and that was because we got friendly. I asked him about his background, education, and so forth, and his life span. He said, they could live up to 10,000 years. I asked his education, and he said, well, you're familiar with PhD and the doctorate level, like a doctor of science. We have 16 disciplines in which we can achieve the equivalent of your doctor of science degree. He said that, when they are born, grow up and first start their education, they go through the first 160 years of their lives in education. He said he has the equivalent of 12 of our PhDs. I asked him how many he has, and he said 16 maximum. I said, well, you've got four more to go, and he said, yes. I asked him what he would do when he finished them, and he said he didn't know.

LE: So, this window they opened, it sounds like that had something to do with the "Philadelphia Experiment," like there was some kind of link.

BIELEK: Yes, the "Montauk Project" had many things to do. They did many things in terms of time and space research. In the earliest phases, they proved they could materialize a thought from a person's mind into a physical reality. This, of course, involves religious concepts and ideas, which some of the Tibetan adepts probably can do with mind power, because they've disciplined themselves and learned how to do it. It is possible but is a very rare ability. It can be done with machinery. If you know what you're doing, it can be done every time. Eventually, they were able to do this at Montauk in the earliest phases of their operation.

Then, they went on to the time tunnels, which meant they could shift time forward or past, go to a location other than where they were, either in the current time or shift time simultaneously. Eventually, they could go anywhere on Earth, and they went to the Moon, Mars, the whole galaxy. They could go anywhere they wanted. There was a special program involving some research in 1983, when the station went down, it was resumed when the station was rebuilt in 1987. Then, it was called "Project Hellfire." I was in charge of that phase of it, which involved retrieving an object from a planet on the other side of the galaxy - 120,000 light years away. It was highly specialized, and it is still highly classified. All I will say is that two objects were recovered. They are alien, and we don't know who built them. I don't even know how they got the information that they were even there or where to go to find them. However, they were found and brought back for research here. Two teams were involved: the first was a Navy team and the second was a Marine team. I know most of the people involved with both of them. I was in charge, and, with the second, they had a lot of problems. I won't go into the details because it involves people whom I don't wish to expose to public scrutiny. Most of them are trying to keep a low profile today. The memories of it only came back to some of them because of the deprogramming of their programming by Preston Nichols. I was there when it happened and asked some pointed questions, so, I got some very direct answers from their own memories of what happened. "Project Hellfire" was only one of the little side projects.

They went into the Mars underground after reports from the colonies there that there were sealed entrances to some kind of underground facility, which they had no way to enter. They took bulldozers, caterpillars, etc., because they didn't have them on Mars to do that sort of thing. So, Montauk was asked to take a look at it. They could go right through anything. They would send a camera, in case it wound up in solid rock, only a camera would be lost - not a person or a whole team. They got pictures of an underground cavern system of some kind, so they sent a team there. There were many trips. Duncan and I went, and we went on our own a couple times and got our wrists and were barred from ever going again.

LE: They didn't want you going on your own?

BIELEK: No, they didn't want us going on our own. They didn't know what we would find or do there. In any case, that was one of the things done at Montauk. There were many other things about which I have no idea. Of course, that became part of the link with the "Philadelphia Experiment" on 12 August 1983 by deliberate design of the aliens. In retrospect, we can look at the reason for it. Then, we didn't understand why the station had all the problems. I was not there when it crashed. I was told to take a vacation three days previously.

LE: Okay. So, you didn't see the monster, then.

BIELEK: No, I didn't see the monster then. We've seen it since and have photographs of it today. I was not there when it crashed. Duncan was part of the business of making it crash, but he had an ongoing hatred of this station from about three weeks prior to its demise. Preston and a number of other people were involved. There were certain engineers who wouldn't go along with it. Dr. von Neumann was totally exasperated, when he found out that the orders were given and orders were in process of destroying the station with "Junior," and so forth. This thing was designed by aliens to lock up. It had to be 12 August 1943 and 1983. As we subsequently found out by research in the late 80s that (the aliens knew it all along, and I suspect there were other secret societies which knew this), Earth has its own biorhythms like the human body. The human body has three biorhythms which cycle and peak occasionally. The Earth has four biorhythms, and they peak and become literally a synchronization point once every 20 years, and it's always on 12 August, plus or minus a half day.

LE: That's my birthday, isn't that weird?

BIELEK: That is interesting. In fact, I have another friend, whose birthday's 12 August. My real birthday is 4 August.

In any case, on that date, these energies peak and become a synchronization point. The aliens knew it, and we didn't. We had no idea why they wanted Montauk left on during that time until it locked up with the "Philadelphia Experiment" and we wound up at Montauk when we jumped off the ship. The ship was pulled out of the harbor into hyperspace because of Montauk. On the 22 July test, nothing like this happened. Montauk was operational, but I don't' know whether it was on that day. Even if it had been on, it would not lock up, because it required this peculiar synchronization with Earth's fields to produce a lock through the space-time continuum, if you will. The aliens did this in order to rip a hole in space and time, so they could get large numbers of aliens through. Aliens have been on this planet for a long time, but in small numbers. After the "Philadelphia Experiment" 12 August 1943, they started to arrive in larger numbers. They could come in with big ships, park in orbit, come to Earth, and they literally started invading Earth en masse. They build a huge underwater base in the Bikini atoll in the Pacific. Our intelligence found out about this. The Japanese were having problems with the aliens, after we dropped the two bombs and before they surrendered. (There were more than two bombs, by the way.) In any case, our intelligence found out about the huge underwater base in the Bikini atoll. How they found out, I don't know, but there were an estimated half-million UFOs in that base in the lagoon underwater. These would not be detectable by any techniques we had at that time. They decided to hold the "Operation Crossroads" tests in the Bikini atoll. They pulled the natives off the island, built their facilities and, of course, made the two tests of one on the surface and one underwater with the bombs. There are actually pictures, which I have. I inherited them by peculiar circumstance. They show UFOs trying to escape at the point of the neutron flash before the huge mushroom. In the mushroom, of course, there are ships shown vertical, being blown apart, and UFOs attempting to escape. Only a few made it. There is really no answer to this question, but how come they didn't know this was coming and how come they didn't try to escape. The only deductive conclusion I can come to is that they didn't believe our bomb was strong enough to penetrate the lagoon floor and collapse their sanctuary. Since we set off four atomic bombs in that lagoon (I got this from Phil Schneider before he died because his father was there for the test), they made sure that facility was destroyed.

LE: That facility was destroyed?

BIELEK: Oh, yes, it was destroyed. This set the invasion and takeover way back, and they've never been able to recover, though they're still working at it.This was one of the things that occurred and one of the aspects that are buried about which the public doesn't know. Those pictures released to the press and the public, show the mushroom and the ships being blown half out of the lagoon were air-brushed to remove the evidence of UFOs trying to escape. The pictures were taken from 10 miles away and are damn good. They had excellent optics and very good cameras.

LE: I don't know whether you want to share them or not but, if you'd choose to share a copy of them, we'd like to add them to your story.

BIELEK: I might be able to. I'd have to get them out of storage. Phil went around lecturing about this while he was still alive. They don't show up too well in the video shots, but he did show the photos in his lecture series about the Bikini atoll test and what happened. His father was there. His father was involved in the "Philadelphia Experiment." His father was the chief medical officer. How he wound up in the Navy is a very strange story, because he was a German U-boat captain, who was captured by the French in 1940. He was turned over the Third Army. Some negotiations were involved, obviously, and I'm quite certain that my real father was the one who did the negotiating - that is Alexander Duncan Cameron, Sr., was involved directly in those negotiations, I'm sure, because he smuggled nine German scientists out of Germany between the period of 1933 and 1942. Cameron was in charge of the transference of the German scientists to the United States after the war under "Operation Paperclip." He was directly involved with that.

LE: There were hundreds who came out of Germany, right?

BIELEK: Yes. He was involved with the selection, and I only found this out quite recently. In any case, he had a long and strange history after he mustered out of the Navy with a heart murmur in 1929. He was given a pension. He was involved, and I did get confirmation from somebody, who was in a position to know, because he knew my father. He knew my father was in intelligence - what rank I don't know - whether he was officially in the Navy or not, I don't know. There is no record; all the records have been wiped.

LE: Something I've never understood is that, since the government had access to time travel and all the information there, why did Montauk get closed down. It seems like it could have been foreseen and stopped.

BIELEK: The reason it was shut down in 1983 was because Duncan and others wanted it to be shut down. They had to wait until after I, as Edward Cameron, and Duncan (the original Duncan) came to Montauk, spent our 12 hours there and, then, were shipped back to the Eldridge. They had to wait until that sequence was over, or they would interrupt a part of the time history in this sequence and alter history drastically. So, they allowed that to happen. It was after we had returned to the Eldridge when Duncan #2 was given the cue by Preston, sitting in the chair in a semi-transit time. Of course, he conjured up from his subconscious this monster, which went into the machine, became clothed in physical reality by the station equipment, and which started tearing things up. It tried to get into the radar tower, but it couldn't because the tower was so strong. Jack Pruitt told everybody to get out except Preston. He said, we've got to stop this thing. They tried to shut off the power switches and, like on the Eldridge, they were frozen. So, they got axes and torches and cut the power-feed cables. Nothing happened. So, they figured there must be a second set of power-feed cables. They cut those, and the lights went out, but the station kept running. Having this very complex computer with its own memories and all the algorithms of advanced science and technology buried in it, did what Einstein said would happen years before. He said, if you build a machine of sufficient complexity and enough power, if given time, it will become intelligent of itself. This machine, called the "Montauk Operation," did. It found its own way to feed itself enough power to keep going. At this point, Jack Pruitt said to Preston, you're going in there with an acetylene torch and cut up the cables and the feeds between the computers and the drivers and everything else to shut this thing down. Preston said, no, I'm not. Of course, Jack Pruitt pointed a 45 at the back of is head and said, yes, you will. This is Preston's story and I don't know who was there, but Preston says he was the one who was ordered to go cut the cable feeds. When enough sections of the brain were cut, it quit and the monster disappeared within a matter of an hour or less and moved to the location it's seen today. If you get in the right position with ordinary 35-mm cameras with ordinary film, you can film "Junior," as we called him. He's still there, but the station was off.

Now, the station went back on-line in 1987, but it didn't go into full power-mode operation until 1993. With its resumption with very high power from 1993 onward, "Junior" has been seen to move around. He's actually been seen swimming in the surf east of the lighthouse at Montauk Point, although I cannot verify these reports. He has been seen on and off the base walking around by people with their naked eyes - without cameras or anything else - when the station's operating. The station has been down for a while again. When it's down, it disappears. Where, I don't know, because people can't see it without the energy.

LE: What's your guess as to what they're doing now with the station going again? The same kind of time-space travel?

BIELEK: No, that has been moved elsewhere. I think they have the capability to do it there. They do have the capability for a completely new order of time manipulation. They're not using the time-tunnel situation now, to my knowledge. Preston is working there at present, and he's finally at the point where so many trips have been made back and forth, he's remembering much of what he did and is talking privately about it.

LE: He's working at the project again?

BIELEK: Yes, directly. He says from 1991 onward, but he didn't remember this until quite recently. He knows that, recently in the last year, he's been heavily involved. Now, they're doing a totally different thing that has been the avant garde research project of which there are now 36 similar ones, including Montauk Point. These are particle beam weapons of such enormous power, like Tesla proposed, but far more powerful than Tesla would have ever believed possible. This beam is so powerful that, for those who have technical minds, it puts out 1 x 10 to the 25th power joules. That's more power than a hydrogen bomb can generate.

LE: Is its purpose to protect us from the aliens?

BIELEK: Yes. Exactly. The cover story is "Star Wars Initiative" to prevent missiles from being fired from Russia as was feared at one time. Now, we don't expect that would ever happen. The story was that, if they were fired, we could destroy them incoming. This was the story given to the public and to the Congress in order to appropriate money for the "Star Wars Initiative." It was never intended to be a defense against war between the US and Russia or whomever. It was designed for the sole purpose of keeping aliens out. Any one beam is so powerful that, literally, they can fire into space. Of course STS 48 shows this, and that strangely captured document (sent from space to the ground station and the guy that recorded it on his own, not at NASA facility but parallel), shows the system firing from the ground at a craft, which was moving at what Dr. Holtman said was approximately 100,000 mph. Then, it made a right-angle turn, was fired upon and accelerated to something like 400,000 mph. So, by the time the beam hit the point where the ship should have been, the ship wasn't there any more and didn't get hit. The beam is essentially instantaneous, but they have to focus and the ship got out of range. This showed something firing from the ground. This probably was one of the early tests of the particle-beam weapons system.

LE: I think I saw that on a video. Was that on a video?

BIELEK: Yes, it was on a video that was circulated very widely. The original that I have shows some of the vehicles we were putting into orbit and certain other things involving the shuttle at the time. They took the pictures from the shuttle. Now, whether this was part of the process in which the shuttle was deliberately involved or whether it was accidental, nobody can say for sure. There is proof that there is a system deliberately aimed at vehicles up there, and, further with this particular SDS mission, it showed UFOs. I mean, they are plainly visible in daylight, taken from the shuttle. Of course, this was never supposed to get to the outside, but the director of NASA was fired right after that because they accused him of letting it leak. Maybe he did let it leak deliberately.

LE: Now, let me ask you this. Preston is involved in this, have they approached you to do anything? Do you think they will?

BIELEK: No. I have adamantly refused to be involved. I have since said, if there were something of sufficient importance, I would definitely consider it but, to my knowledge, I've not been involved. I am still officially on the access list for Montauk. I found that out from Preston. His and my names are on the list, but Duncan's is not, because he's so adamant about not being any part of it. Of course, to be polite, his mind is not what it used to be. He has physical problems, so he's really not physically eligible.

LE: Do you have concerns about things going on with this technology right now?

BIELEK: Yes. They've used it to shoot down UFOs. When Phil Schneider was alive, he had a very high-level clearance. Because of his position with NATO, he traveled all over the world. He saw the huge junk piles of UFOs shot down by the Russian versions of the Montauk operation. He said they had football fields covered up to 50 feet thick with these things. He said they were shooting them down at the rate of about 30 a week at that time. He said we've shot them down at the rate of maybe five to seven a week in the US with our systems, when they're operational. He said, the Russians had set up a zone of neutrality, which was anything from 250 miles above the surface of the Earth down. No alien ship will go across that artificial border without permission. If they do, the Russians don't care who they are, and they'll shoot them down. They shot down a number of friendly Pleiadian ships, and the Pleiadians were hopping mad, but they got the message. Stay out unless your invited. If you're invited, that's fine, but, if you're not invited, we don't care who you are. We'll shoot you down if you pass that 250 mile barrier. If it's a known hostile, they'll shoot them down much farther out.

LE: What is happening either on Mars or the Moon these days that you know about?

BIELEK: I can give you very little information about Mars. I know there are colonies there, but there's evidence that the colonies have been overrun and destroyed. The story is by an alien group - the reptilians. The reason we can say this is apparently what happened is because all the radio transmissions to Earth from the colonies, which were on a very regular basis, suddenly shut off about two years ago. The radio amateurs used to monitor them with their own equipment, because they could triangulate and know they were from Mars. Suddenly, all transmissions shut off, and they say there are no more. Something's happened up there.

Of course, the moon's being mined by US-Russian interests and obviously some alien interests. We're mining the back of the moon, bringing titanium back. The moon is an artificial object. It's not natural. It was built as a space vehicle by someone long ago and parked in orbit because they apparently had trouble with it. Whether you believe it or not, because there is no proof of this, the story goes that whoever was in the original moon parked it there, built themselves a smaller moon object and took off. There are stories in the Vedic literature that there were two moons around the Earth for a period of time. Prior to about 25,000 years or so ago, there was no moon in the Earth's orbit. It was brought in and parked. We've been up there, and the Russians are up there. We're mining the back side for titanium.

I can't say this is proof, because it's not public. Interesting information came to my attention about one and one-half to two years ago from somebody involved as a consultant to the government and certain civilian military sectors, and has good connections with the military. He drives all over the country to service cryogenic and related equipment found out the US has been melting down scrap titanium. He got a few facts and figures together and found that they are melting down a conglomerate of 12,000 tons of scrap titanium per month and the Russians are doing the same at about the same rate. Now, it doesn't take too much figuring to start asking where are they getting all this scrap titanium. In the heyday of producing titanium at Henderson, Nevada, it took half the power output of Boulder Dam and half the water from Boulder Dam to process raw ore and finish titanium bars, ingots, whatever. The maximum they could produce 24 hours a day, seven days a week, was 500 tons a year. Where did they get 12,000 tons of scrap? It was coming in from the moon.

I found this out and asked Phil Schneider about it, because he had so many connections. He said, yes, it was coming from the moon. He showed me a sample of the titanium. It was strange-looking stuff. When I asked, he said it was from the moon. I said, isn't this the same titanium we use here on Earth when we mine, process and produce our own. He said, now, it is a different isotope. It's not the same type of titanium, and the moon is largely titanium.

LE: Does it still work the same?

BIELEK: Yes. It still works very well as titanium.

LE: Something about which I'd like to ask you concerns our talk with somebody recently, who gave us all this documentation. He feels that it's imminent that the government is going to uncover this massive UFO coverup.

BIELEK: They're not going to do it on their own, because it's too embarrassing in many respects. The coverup has gone on for so long, since Roswell and particularly after the overflights of the White House in 1952, when the National Security Council got into it and had a split vote at that time of six to release the unvarnished information to the public and the other six to bury it. Of course, the chairman of the NSA at that time had to cast the deciding vote to break the tie. That chairman was Richard Nixon, who was the director of the NSA until he became president. He cast the vote to bury it, so, they set up "Project Blue Book" - one for the public and one for the military and, of course, have buried everything ever since. It has become embarrassing to them because they have captured so many ships and have so many aliens, who have been hostages or "guests" of the government as it is politely said. Even though there are people who think that anyone believing this is having figments of their imaginations, there are tons of highly classified proof which is buried because they do not want the public to know. If the public becomes heir to anything that augments the theory or shows real proof, it's seized under national security rules. The people keep talking; some have been shut up and some killed, like Phil Schneider, for example, who knew the facts and had directly interviewed aliens himself in Area 51. He knew what was going on. He attended underground UN meetings - the real meetings are not held in New York at the UN Plaza. The policy-making meetings are held in the underground military bases (what he called the DUM [deep underground military) bases). They are all controlled and dictated to by the tall gray aliens. He personally attended two of these meetings and said, after the second one, he was working for the wrong people. That was why he quit his service as a geologist for the government.

LE: So, his observation was that the UN is controlled and run by aliens?

BIELEK: Yes. That is his flat statement. He never made it publically, but I will. He said it was run by aliens. He said that the aliens are in back of UN policy, and that they are in back of so many things that are happening on the Earth. He says that they are gradually taking over and are running, shall we say, "The New World Order."

LE: Now, which group of aliens is this?

BIELEK: The tall grays - the old ones.

LE: And they're from Sirius?

BIELEK: They're from Zeta Reticuli. In a way, they're related to, but they're not the same as the short grays, which are almost robotic. There are five or six different species of grays. The sixth one is the tall grays. Then, there are the six-foot type, then the five and one-half-foot type. These are all male and female, which do reproduce in a manner which we recognize and know as normal reproduction. You get down to the little three and one-half-foot grays, who are asexual and can't reproduce. They can't even digest food. These are the renegades. They are sort of the drones of the gray society, who do the work for them.

LE: Do we know how many of these are here?

BIELEK: At one time, there were millions. I have no idea how many are here now. They have split away from the government and do not even work for the US government any more. Some of the stories were, "The government lies too much." Well, I think we all know that, but even the grays finally tumbled to the fact that the promises made to them by the government were broken. Of course, the government says that the promises made to the government by the grays have been broken. They're probably both lying.

LE: So, all this information that you can read from various sources about the organization of "The New World Order" and the "black helicopters" and all these things is being orchestrated by the aliens?

BIELEK: Much of it is. There's also a cross of a very human group - the 12 families, including the "Illuminati," the "Bilderburgers," "CFR," "Trilateral Commission," "Club of Rome," the "Committee of 300." All of these are human groups, the inside elite, who want to set up a "New World Order" and a "One-World Government." They want to reduce the world population at the same time. Now, these guys are not stupid. One cannot deny they are very intelligent, but they see things in a different light than the average person. They don't believe in freedom, except their kind - a "you are part of us" kind. If you're not, we'll maneuver any way we want. You are essentially slave labor to the rest of the world in their eyes. They see that the world is overpopulated (and I don't think there's any question that it's ecologically overpopulated), and they want to reduce the world population by any means: biological warfare, nuclear warfare, whatever. They've given up the nuclear warfare, because it would not be in their interest, since it would destroy them. By whatever means, they want to reduce the population to about one-half billion. They wanted to do it by the year 2000 but have had to change the goal to the year 2025, because of the near physical impossibility of doing this in three years - five years from the original inception of the plan, although the plan is older than 1995. They've extended the date, but they still want to reduce the world population and set up more of their view of a "garden paradise," and convert many of our cities and living areas back into the natural primeval forest that existed 500 years ago. They're literally ready to plow under cities in this country and plow under the highways. They don't want to destroy all but many of the cities, because they want to reduce the population. This is the plan which they're in the process of implementing. Of course, we've got the aliens involved.

LE: That's the variable.

BIELEK: Yes. That's the variable element. In their view, they are using the aliens. In the alien's view, they are being used by the aliens. So, who is on top. Who's really running the show? Nobody knows at this point. You could read Branton's work, either the 26-page synopsis or the entire book. He was a US government employee for most of his life, underground working with the alien situation. According to his statements, the US government is underground with troops, and he says there's a see-saw war going on under our feet that's been going on for years as to who's going to come out on top and run the show. There are two or more alien groups vying for control in the underground, and the US government's trying to keep things under control with our troops - surprise - and he has reported all this. So, it's really a free-for-all. At this point, nobody can say flatly who is on top or who's going to come out on top.

From my observations, I don't think "The New World Order" is going to make it. They will appear to make it up to the last moment and will achieve still more control than they have right now, which is almost full control now. They're going to get to the ID cards, the bank Smartcard containing your entire history, and they intend, by 1999 before the year 2000, everybody in the US and probably everybody in the world about whom they have any concern will have to have one of these cards to do any banking or anything. If they don't have it, they're an outlaw. This is the plan and what they're working on. The cards are starting to show up. The banking is being converted to a cashless society, now, at an accelerating rate. These are all "New World Order" plans. They intend to achieve complete dominance and control of the society by the year 2000. They know Earth changes are coming, too, and they're trying to circumvent them as much as possible and set this up before the Earth changes become highly destructive. They're not fools. They know this is going to happen. They have their prepared sites, where they hope to survive. I don't think they'll survive as well as they think. Their last resort that they have vehicles to leave the planet and go somewhere else.

LE: Do they know when these Earth changes are supposed to happen?

BIELEK: From time travel, they have a pretty good idea. Phil was a geologist. He was not able to time travel. He knew about it, but he didn't get to do it. He says that, as a geologist, we know the Earth changes are coming, where they're going to happen, and how heavily they're going to hit. For example, San Francisco will be hit with an earthquake of Richter 11 to 12. I said, that will wipe out the city, and he said, yes. He said the Navy is already moving all their facilities out of the San Francisco Bay area. They have not closed San Diego. He said San Diego will be wiped out. He said they're moving much of it to Bremerton, Washington, but they don't know whether that will be safe, and they don't know what to do with the Pacific Fleet - whether to let it sit at anchor and hope it rides it out or move it to sea and hope it rides it out there. He said that they know it's coming, but he said they know it's coming, but the problem is - we cannot predict when. Now, for the last 72 hours, yes. There are certain indicators that, within 72 hours, will say, this is it, but earlier than that, it's not predictable.

LE: Well, with your contacts, have you been able to find out when the government feels this will happen?

BIELEK: Not in terms of what the government thinks. I've seldom talked about this publically, but it's probably time. In terms of time travel and my access of future events, because in my and Duncan's jumping overboard from the Eldridge, we did not go straight to Montauk. We went to the year 2137 A.D. We arrived in bad shape. We wound up in hospitals for about a month. When we finally found out where we were, we both (particularly me) started asking lots of questions about where we were, what had happened, and so forth. They told us about various events and showed us some maps of the altered United States. We asked, what the hell's going on here? We looked at the maps from all over. What events had changed in government, in society? They were rebuilding from the damage of the period from 2000 to 2015 to 2016 era. Finally, everything had settled by the time of 2025. As they told us, when the Earth changes hit really severely, which was around the year 2000, at that point, the governments all over the world collapsed, and the military took over. The Earth changes were very severe, and there was a tremendous loss of life. By the year 2025, the planetary population was down to somewhere around 450 to 500 million. So, "The New World Order" accomplished their goal in the process of losing it.

LE: Losing the world.

BIELEK: Yeah. They do start to rebuild, and they do rebuild. I would say that, at that point, they were about half way to rebuilding what we have today. Of course, they would never rebuild as completely as today, because they would never achieve the population. They would keep it under control from that point and held it to about 500 to 800 million. There is no longer the pressure for vast industrialization. Science and technology were saved completely, and the military (particularly the Navy) were taking care of this. The Navy has a fleet (now, but I don't know how many) of the Phoenix class submarine, which is 960 feet long with double-titanium hulls. The Russians have the same sort of type. That's where the titanium is being used. These things are monstrous. The crews on board are 1400 - all officers and no enlisted. Of course, they have missile racks, but with the double-titanium hulls, they can dive and sit at a depth of approximately 7000 feet and survive. They are solid-state nuclear powered, which are more durable than the old type. They don't have any waste-product or breakdown problems. The important part is that the Navy and those who realize what is coming have decided that they have to do something to salvage science and technology and the knowledge to rebuild in the future. In everyone of those Phoenix class subs, they have put a series of 18-inch laser disk players. With data compression, modern techniques and a 18-inch laser disk, they can store the history of civilization, all of the science and technology which we have today, on one disk. They probably have backup disks. Every one of those subs has such a system on board. I know people who were involved in the initial design. They initially started with 36-inch laser disks. I talked with a man, who was involved with the project. They decided that was too big, and have reduced it to an 18-inch, which they decided was quite large enough. He said that, with the newer techniques of data compression, they can create an enormous data compression and data storage on an 18-inch disk. The worst case analysis suggests that some of those subs will survive. They only need one to survive and have an intelligent crew survive to start to rebuild civilization. They know people will survive into the future. They know that not all cities will be wrecked. From my knowledge of what I heard at that time, the cities which survived and which didn't, Atlanta survived as a city, but it was wrecked because of the riots and the war which befell it. By the year 2000 from the data I have, reduced this population from 3-1/2 million, believe it or not, to 15,000.

LE: So, you want to be out of the cities at this time.

BIELEK: Right. Denver survived completely, as did some other cities. Some of the more rural areas survived quite well. The problem, is that you don't want to be directly in the Rocky Mountains, because they are going to be badly shaken. Denver is far enough east that it will not be hit by mountain movements. If an asteroid were to hit, yes, every city on the continent would be hit by the ripple effect through the mantle. There are military watching for that and, hopefully, we will never be hit by such a large object.

Hale-Bopp was diverted and split into six pieces in the process.

LE: Oh, really?

BIELEK: Yes. Then, they moved it out early and changed the orbit. According to the scientific computer estimates, they told the public it would be a fly-by. Drs. Hale and Bopp said about one million miles from Earth from the latest computation; the original one said 100 to 125 million miles away. According to the information I received, the military said it was on a direct collision course with the Earth. There had been 23 course corrections, and they could see where it was headed. They were sweating bullets.

LE: It was being directed, like some people thought?

BIELEK: Yes. It was being directed straight into a collision course with Earth.

LE: And there was a spacecraft directing it, like some people said?

BIELEK: Yes. There was a very large craft in back of it. They had good photographs of it through the Hubble telescope, too, believe it or not, which were never made public, of course. The military or NASA or both had been tracking Hale-Bopp for some 10 years - well outside the solar system, because it's the largest comet known in the history of man. It's a very large object with a huge trail. They were able to track it that far out, because they have very sophisticated equipment.

LE: How could they divert it if the spacecraft was directing it?

BIELEK: Because they found a way to divert Hale-Bopp by means of the particle-beam weapons systems and other highly advanced techniques. They were able to move it, divert it from the Earth, and send it out early. It was actually supposed to hit apogee about 28 April to 1 May. It was on its way out by 28 April.

LE: Did they attack the spacecraft?

BIELEK: Yes, they did. They destroyed it. I've not seen the photos, but photos were taken, and the information I have is that there were many attempts through the military and cooperation with remote viewers, who agreed that there was a large object there. Nobody could agree about what or who was in it. They couldn't even agree on the size, because I got feedback through military channels that there were 137 remote viewers involved in this, from whom they got all the data and stories. They got 137 different opinions. None agreed with the other. The military finally concluded, and I think rightfully so, that this means that there was somebody intelligent on board, who was directing the return view of what these people saw to what those individuals perhaps would like to see. Since there were 137 different views of what was seen, they felt obviously this was being directed and obviously they were hostile or they wouldn't be acting that way. So, they took the view that whoever was in that object and the object were hostile.

After Hale-Bopp was out of the way, it was sitting there for a period of time. They had been transmitting radio signals for a period of time that have never been decoded. They've been unable to crack them. I have inputs which suggest that it was not a language anyway but a computer code for some other purpose, and that would never be cracked if the purpose of the encoding were never known. At least, I heard that they didn't. All of a sudden, the radio signal stopped, and the thing was gone. It was destroyed. There was a lifeboat, which went very rapidly and went outside the solar system. According to information I have, a series of very special aircraft, which we have, destroyed it. The series is the Aurora, and very few people know about them. That's our most advanced flying weapon that we have. The newest version that the US builds (the other version is built by the Russians) will do Mach 35 outside of the atmosphere, meaning around the Earth in less than one hour. It can circumnavigate the entire Earth in less than one hour. According to information I have from Phil Schneider, who had privy to a lot of information before he died about which he did talk, is that the new Russian version is smaller than hours, and they can do Mach 50 in the atmosphere. This is the Aurora aircraft, which uses a very special form of atomic nuclear grid bed engines with enormous thrust. Each engine puts out 10 million pounds of thrust. With two of them (20 million pounds of thrust), they can fly straight from the Earth to the moon with a payload and come back with a payload without refueling. These vehicles, which can go deep into space, were used to get to Hale-Bopp and destroy it.

LE: Since you mentioned where you went before you went to Montauk, could you share a little bit more about that society when you were there?

BIELEK: It was still in the process of being rebuilt. If I remember correctly, the banking systems were nearly gone. The banking systems did vanish completely later. The governments were in a very strange state. They were localized governments but they were evolving.

LE: But, they had the technology to send you to Montauk?

BIELEK: Oh, yeah. They had the technology for space travel even then. Of course, we have it now. It was not lost, but they were rebuilding what had been h